No leaders in hereafter
The sound clip provided on this page is a Real Audio .rm file. This clip will play immediately, yet can only be heard with a RealAudio program, such as Realplayer 8.0. To download a free copy refer to the link at the bottom of this page.
Please bear in mind that these recordings were made many years ago when taperecorders had just appeared on the market. As Leslie Flint's house was situated at a thoroughfare street noises often penetrated into the seance room. The voice manifested at a point in space in the seance room not far from the medium and the sitters. The medium is heard laughing at times.
On April 29th 1963 a voice manifested in the seance-room of British medium
Leslie Flint in the presence of sitters Betty Greene and George Woods, which claimed to be that of Elizabeth Fry. In her lifetime (1780 - 1845) she was known as a courageous Quaker who is remembered for her struggle to reform the apalling conditions in British prisons. She committed herself to a religious life when she was seventeen. Thirty years later she wrote of her work in prisons:
"Much depends on the spirit in which the visitor enters upon her work. It must be in the spirit, not of judgment, but of mercy."
A contemporary said of her "She always could see hope for everyone , she invariably found or made some point of light. The most abandoned must have felt that she did not despair for them, either for this world or another: and this it was that made her irresistible".
Elizabeth Fry wrote herself in 1844: My life has been one of great vicissitude: mine has been a hidden path, hidden from every human eye. I have had deep humiliations and sorrows to pass through. I can truly say I have 'wandered in the wilderness in a solitary way, and found no city to dwell in'; and yet how wonderfully I have been sustained."
Her importance is also underlined by the fact that she now appears on the new British £ 5 banknote since 21st May 2002. An honour bestowed on her as she not only became the UK's most important woman penal reformer, but Europe's chief campaigner for inmates' rights.
"What I am trying to say is that there are no leaders as such. We have an organisation which is so subtle and yet so natural, because a person over here does not in a sense give orders. We have groups of souls who do special work. But we all realise automatically within ourselves what our part is, what work we have to do, and we realise that we are all interwoven one with another. I think that it is that we are all very conscious of this oneness of spirit. Here, no one glories in being a leader, whereas in for instance in your world in religious organisations and political organisations, you do get this sort of glorification of the individual. The first thing a person must learn, almost, you might say, if they wish to progress here, is to lose that idea of self-importance. Those who are really progressed on this side, never, never give that impression, because it is not even in their nature to appear, or want to appear, important. Everything that we talk about, everything that we do, is done in complete love and harmony one with another. No one wants to override another person. All our influence is for good and in love and therefore we don't have on this side organisation as such. We do not recognise leaders in a sense that you do."
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Her message was in concert with the tenets of the Quakers: to be led by the inner light and not to beinfluenced by authority. Quaker meetings have no leader.
The voice went on to speak for some time and then trailed off for lack of power.
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This page initiated: 5 August 1998, revised 7 March 2009
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Collage on top of page is © Yvette Rogge
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